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 All Forums >> [Tips, Tricks, & Tutorials] >> Using Digital Juice Products with Adobe Premiere >> Fast Srart for QT files in Ppro CS#? | Page: [1] |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Does anyone know how to encode QT files for Fast Start in Ppro CS3? There does not seem to be any provisions for this that I can see. I decided to use Quicktime Pro and it has a provision for Fast Start, but when I uploaded the file to my web host and consequently accessed the file via my web browser, it needed to download the file before play. This happened in Firefox, IE, and AOL. I subsequently used the "Export for Web" option in Quicktime Pro, and it worked fine. However, the data rate in QT Pro using this option is defaulted to 1.5 Mbps and it would hang and buffer on occasion on the computers I used to view the video on. I like this opton, but cannot seem to figure out how to adjust the data rate. For those not familiar with QT Pro in the "Export for Web" option, what haapens is that QT Pro simultaneously renders out 2 video files. One is for viewing on a desktop at 1.5 Mbps and a sencond file is rendered out at 56Kbps for viewing on the user's device. A third file is created which the web host uses to select which video is displayed on the delivered. If the user is on a portalbe device, then the smaller file is automatically fed to the viewer. This is a really neat feature of QT Pro and well worth the $29.00 price. I wish this feature was included in the Adobe Media encoder included with Ppro CS3. Is this different in CS4 or the upcomming CS5? Anyhow, help on the Fast Start issue is greatly appreciated as is advice about selecting the data rate when using QT Pro's "Export for Web" option. Regards. < Message edited by manappraisal -- 4/6/2010 12:53:06 PM > |
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Fast Srart for QT files in Ppro CS#? - 
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DamonHan Posts: 1096 Joined: 8/31/2006 From: Evansville, IN Status: offline
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I would think you'd have to use a streaming host for this, does your web hosting provide streaming?
_____________________________ Damon Hancock http://www.fatheadmedia.com http://www.onelifenetwork.in (in reply to manappraisal) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Thanks for the reply Damon: The Fast Start option can be used to prepare video files for a streaming server or for progressive download. The streaming option is selected for preparation for the streaming server, the download option is used when used for a progressive download. QT Pro's 'export for web" feature works perfectly for progressive download, with the video playing almost immediately upon access in a web browser, but the 1.5 Mbps it defaults to, results in some hanging and buffering. At about 800-900 Kbps, I think most folks on fast Internet connections would probably be OK. Like I said, it is a really neat feature of the QT Pro package available from Apple, and only $29.00. It is possible that Apple may not want to license this feature to Adobe. Otherwise I cannot possibly imagine why Adobe does not include this in the QT encoding section in the media encoder. Seems like a no brainier. Otherwise, I can not imagine anyone wanting to encode to QT when using Ppro. The video encoded with Fast Start at 900 Kbps can be accessed at: http://vid-tours.com/Brandy.mov This is taking about 10-15 seconds to start playing on my computer. The same video encoded using "Export for Web" at 1.5 Mbps (max rate) can be seen at: http://vid-tours.com/brandy.mov  This video begins play in 1-3 seconds. Regards and thanks for the reply. Jeff < Message edited by manappraisal -- 4/6/2010 10:26:02 PM > (in reply to DamonHan) |
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JP Shook Posts: 1070 Joined: 5/1/2003 From: Ocala, FL Status: offline
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Jeff I would recommend that you move to H.264 MP4 files (with AAC audio). Adobe Media Encoder CS4 (and CS3) should both be able to transcode to this format. If you can't get it to work, you can try the free Handbrake encoder which is very powerful. QuickTime pro is convenient, but AFAIK, it only supports the baseline H.264 profile which is not as efficient for web delivery as the high profile. The frame size and data rates you select should be based on your target audience. For most broadband users, 1 - 2 mbps is a good data rate and you can either use 640x480 (SD) or 512x288 (HD). Audio sounds pretty good at 128kbps For MPEG based codecs, you should aim for frame sizes that are evenly divisible by 16. Here is a site with a bunch of options to select from: http://www.flashsupport.com/books/fvst/files/tools/video_sizes.html Here are some additional H.264 tips CABAC: On Ref frames: 2-3 B-frames: 2-3 2 Pass VBR Main concept codec (if available in your encoder) If you want to learn even more, check out these presentation slides: http://www.progettosinergia.com/flashvideo/Fabio_Sonnati_EncodingBestPracticesForH.264VideoUsingFlash.pdf Lastly, it is simple to enable Fast start on a existing video using the Adobe Air App QTIndexSwapper (Google it) _____________________________ JP Shook Director of Internet Development Digital Juice, Inc. (in reply to manappraisal) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Open the video in QuickTime pro (if you have it) and do a SAVE AS. This will set the fast start in a Quicktime video if you forgot to set it on export in the authoring programe. When setting fast start (flatting the video) set it to progressive download. With this setting you don't need a streaming server. Don't use the hint setting. This is used on a streaming server. Which I doubt you have.... (Forgive my typing, I'm trying to learn to type on the iPad.) (in reply to JP Shook) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Yes, I may have not performed the "Save As" prior to render. Cannot remember this detail for certain.. "Fast Start was definitely selected as last step before rendering. Yes, it was set for Progressive Download too. Otherwise, I did everything you described. Will try again and report back. One more thing irks me. I frequently get jerky motion on video where I have performed camera pans or other camera motions. Is this due to Keyframe setings? I cannot figure houw how to minimize or prevent this effect. I may have used negative rate stretch to speed up the clips where pans were used. The pan motion is smooth on the original clips. Thanks. Jeff quote: < Message edited by manappraisal -- 4/7/2010 1:00:22 PM > (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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ddixon Posts: 59 Joined: 11/25/2006 Status: offline
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There's a neat little freeware utility called Lilipot that does this all automatically for you - flattens video, makes sure it is self-contained instead of a reference movie, and sets it to fast start. It will also do batch conversions and converts mp4, m4v, aif, wav, mp3, and m4a to fast start .mov files. http://www.qtbridge.com/lillipot/lillipot.html (in reply to manappraisal) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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I've used Lilipot over the years, nice program. Just to let people know, it's Mac only.
(in reply to ddixon) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Mac only would rule me out. Does anyone know if there is a PC equivalent. Thanks. Jeff (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Don't know one for Windows. If you for get to set the fast start or it doesn't take, don't know why it wouldn't. Just open the finished video in Quicktime Pro and do a SAVE AS. This will put the fast start back again into the video. Don't do a SAVE, this won' work. The fast start (tag) is always in the Quicktime video. When setting the fast start or doing a SAVE AS to a video, this places the fast start at the beginning of the video. When you forget to set the fast start or you do a save. The fast start is set at the end of the video. If you have set the videos fast start and you do a save. This will move the fast start the the end of the video. It is alway best and safe to always do a SAVE AS. (in reply to manappraisal) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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I opened the uncompressed video in QT Pro and immediately pressed SAVE AS. However, when did this, QT Pro wanted to render out an uncompressed video as a "Self Contained" movie with a file size of 1.7 GB. Another option is a "Reference Movie" wtih a size of only 48KB. Neither of these options seems fit for a video which I would like to compress to about 900 Kbps. Total file size at this compression should be about 30MB. (video is 5 minutes in length) Do you use one of these settings for fast start? What I was doing previously was sleecting "export" then set the bit rate, then "Progressive Download, then make sure that "Fast Start" is selected. At this point when the save command is selectred, the movie begins to render. Thanks for your help, but this process seeems to still not be working. Regards. Jeff quote: < Message edited by manappraisal -- 4/10/2010 4:15:28 PM > (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Actually, looking again at your post, it appears that you are suggesting to first use QT Pro to render out a compressed QT video, then opening THIS movie again in QT Pro and just pressing the SAVE AS command. Is this correct? I have not done this yet, but wouldn't you one again get the "Self Contained" or "Reference Movie" option? If so, then which of these options do you use? Thanks again for all your help. Jeff (in reply to manappraisal) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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No... I'm saying... If for some reason you lose the fast start in a video... Open it in Qucktime and do a SAVE AS. A SAVE AS is what it implies. It doesn't recompress or render the video file. It's like copying or duplicating the video with a new name. (in reply to manappraisal) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Yes, I understand the "Save As" command. However, when I select "Save AS" in QT Pro, I do not get the typical dialog box. I get a dialog box which gives me two options. One option is is to save the video as a "Self Contained" Video. The other option is to save as a 'Reference Movie". There are no other options available under the "Save As" commend. Typically when one uses a "Save As" command, you would receive a dialog box showing the computer's tree structure. This is logical since the computer "thinks" that you are saving the file as a different file name, or to a different directory etc. I tried to insert an image that I clipped from QT Pro, but the image insertion tool in this forum defaults to an http file for insertion. When I have time, I will upload this image to my web server and insert into a post on this forum so you can see what I am talking about. The fast start option, although selected in the initial decode, was not effective when I uploaded the file to my web host and subsequently viewed in a browser. I hope I am not just ignorant and not understanding your instructions, but I think it may be possible we are seeing different things when we select the "Save As" commend in QT Pro. I apologize if I have this wrong and I do appreciate your efforts to help me get this right. Regards. Jeff (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Selfcontain sets the fast start... Use that one....
(in reply to manappraisal) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Here is the link to the file on our web host using the "Save As" command then selecting the "Self Contained" option. http://vid-tours.com/Brandyqtfs.mov Fast Start was definitely selected during the original encode from a 720 X 480 AVI to a 900 kbps QT with the "Optimized For Download" option selected. . As per the instructions in QT Pro, setting the Fast Start option was the last thing we did prior to executing the encode process. It still seems that the video is not "Fast Starting" as it is taking around 20-30 seconds of downloading prior to playing. Check it out for your self and see if your results differ. For reasons I cannot figure out, this video also has a bad case of the jitters on camera pans and tilts. It is not that way in the original video or in the Windos Media version were are streaming from our Windows Media streaming service. Many thanks for the feedback. Jeff < Message edited by manappraisal -- 4/10/2010 10:43:31 PM > (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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The fast start worked here...empty your bowser caches and temp files and try again. I viewed it on a iPad with wi-fi and it progressively download very fast and had a fast start before it fully loaded.
< Message edited by David M. Brewer -- 4/11/2010 12:10:09 AM > (in reply to manappraisal) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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First rule when testing something in a web page...empty caches and tempt file...before viewing a test page.
(in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Why is this video interlaced? Videos that are interlace will look bad (jagged) on the Internet. Either start the project as non-interlace, file dominace none or deinterlace the video during encoding to h.264.
(in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Not to muddy the waters... I've been testing videos in an HTML 5 page. HTML 5 can steam video without a sstreaming server. I not talking about progressive downloading of a movie, but streaming. With streaming you can jump anywhere in the video before it' s fully downloaded a play from there on. (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Good observation, but I think something else is in the works here. The file was upoaded ad given a unique file name and link. If fast start was active, then it should have worked the first time. This file has not been altered since being uploaded to our web host. After the initial viewing which took 30 second to download prior to play, then subsequent viewing began immediately. I think that this was due to the video being cached. After clearing the cache then clicking on the link, the file, once again, took about 30 seconds to download before playing. I am quite happy that you were able to view as a fast start delivery. The mystery continues. Jeff (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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It might be your ips...it work so I wouldn't worry.
(in reply to manappraisal) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Thanks. I actually gets stranger. I recently bought a new, low end HP Slimline computer to hook up directly to our main TV set in order to watch Fancast, Hulu etc. Nothing fancy, a Windows 7, non-upgradeable unit with a single mother board. No separate video or sound card. All integrated. This unit is not built for high performance. Furthermore it has a wireless LAN connection and does not have good signal strength back to the router. Guess what. On this computer, the video played in fast start with about a 3 second load time, and very little of the jittery playback I experienced on my main editing computer. Just to check, I cleared the cache on the main computer and tried again. Once again, about a 30 second download before the QT player showed up and played. Even stranger, the new computer called up Windows Media Player to play this video, and it played perfectly! The video is a .MOV file. Microsoft's own documentation states that Windows Media Player does NOT support .MOV files! Anyhow many thanks for keeping me working on this. I really had kind of given up. Seems all has corrected itself. The video has been moved to www.vid-tours.com/brandy.mov This was done since the magazine ad which was submitted 2 weeks ago listed this video as available at this web address. Thanks again. Jeff quote: (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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JP Shook Posts: 1070 Joined: 5/1/2003 From: Ocala, FL Status: offline
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With HTML5 video tag, you still need a streaming server if you want to do true streaming AFAIK. manappraisal, please read my earlier post. There is a free Adobe AIR app called QTIndexSwapper (download link on this page http://renaun.com/blog/2007/08/22/234/ - requires Adobe AIR framework) which will change the video to fast start. For best results, you might consider changing your video frame size to 640x480 instead of 720x480. Normal NTSC video for TV (non-square) pixels usually looks better when scaled to 640x480. Additionally, you could crop the black bars and switching to a widescreen frame size like 640x360. _____________________________ JP Shook Director of Internet Development Digital Juice, Inc. (in reply to manappraisal) |
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manappraisal Posts: 102 Joined: 1/29/2008 Status: offline
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Many thanks. I did indeed read your prior response. I have downloaded the app, and am working with it. Apparently the Fast Start option was working properly as reported by others. For some reason, my main editing computer still insists on downloading conventionally prior to play. However, when I viewed on other computers, the video began to play almost immediately. Not sure why this is. Also not sure why it plays perfectly on Window Media Player when supposedly it does not support .mov files! I appreciate the advice on scaling. The AVI version of this video is 720 X480 with PAR of 1.2. Wouldn't 640 X 480 distort the image tall? I am not an expert in scaling or transcoding so there is much I do not yet understand? Also, what does AFAIK mean? Many thanks. Jeff quote: (in reply to JP Shook) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Try this HTML 5...read first. http://jilion.com/sublime/video I'm sure it's not on a streaming server. I read, I think it was on Apple web sit, no streaming server was needed for streaming videos using HTML 5. I know the example video loads fast. But, if your fast enough you can making it the end before it fully downloads ... (in reply to JP Shook) |
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JP Shook Posts: 1070 Joined: 5/1/2003 From: Ocala, FL Status: offline
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Jeff NTSC is designed for round (i think) pixels and computers (and HD) displays square pixels. When you display the round pixels on a square pixel screen, the images will look squished a bit. That is why NTSC on the web is usually represented at 640x480 / 320x240, etc. AFAIK = As far as I know You may want to move away from the .mov extension since it is QuickTime related and use .mp4 which is a more generic and widely supported container. You can still use your H.264 / AAC codecs. David - I have seen that player (really slick!) and should have read up before posting. Just like flash players, the HTML 5 VIDEO tag spec does support 2 way communication and also supports byte/time ranges for video files. But, the server still has to support the spec as well, so it is not yet a true streaming solution. However, the spec also supports (but not widely implemented) RTSP and other streaming protocols as well. I hope to have a DJTV HTML 5 player setup at some point to checkout. Unfortunately, the codecs and tags are not widely supported in all browsers, so it will be a few years until we see widespread adoption like we see with Flash. Also, at this time, there is no true fullscreen, hardware decoding, DRM, etc. support, all of which Flash have. (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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