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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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quote: Don't miss the point on this. The rights belong to the rights holder - no matter where they are. The iTunes downloads are not breaking the law because the RIGHTS HOLDER is providing them (with rights to do so) to Apple for use on the iTunes. It's still the rights holder determining what can be done with their intellectual property. No laws broken. The rights holder can do whatever they want (or don't want) with their property. 
< Message edited by wizard -- 11/25/2006 12:19:18 AM > _____________________________ Pops (in reply to Matt) |
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RE: SHOWCASE REQUEST - 
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IMG Posts: 862 Joined: 3/23/2006 From: Irmo, SC Status: offline
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Oh, I almost forgot to mention, Matt...Zune? ICK! Give me my iRiver ANYDAY! It is far better than a Zune or even a crummy "hey I catch fire at the drop of a hat, or my hard drive crashes and Apple refuses to replace it, even under warranty" iClod, er, I mean, iPod! Did you kno wthat MS's stupid Zune actually allows people to share files (READ: .WMV, .MP3, etc.) wirelessly without the hassle of the license certificates that the WMP uses? And I agree, what the heck were they thinking about such limited file support? MS has a long history of really, REALLY bad decisions and chosing the wrong "horse" when it comes to new technology (to wit, notice they are firmly intrenched on the failing and flailing HD-DVD camp, instead of the winning Blu-ray DVD). Also, as for David's earlier "rhetorical" question: "H.264 is a delivery format for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. A long with VC-1 and MPEG-2. H.264 is a codec. Or should I say MPEG-4 Part 10 or AVC just another name for h.264... If h.264 can't delivery HD then tell me what HD is?" My response to this is, do your research, my friend! There are no HD-DVD nor Blu-ray DVD titles available AT THIS TIME that use the h.264 spec for the compression scheme. I was shocked when I first read this intention to deliver a non- h.264 HD product from both opposing camps around 2 years ago, and I have been actively following this entire revolution in a fervent, passionate fashion since it was first announced in the late 1990's. Yes, they are capable of delivering HD video (which has a HUGE and seemingly never-ending variety of formats), but they are just not using the h.264 specification for the compression scheme. They are initailly releasing all of the titles using the the older MPEG2 compression. Why? I don't know! I haven;t heard a definitive answer to that question yet from anyone in a position of authority. When I do, I'll be sure to share that info with everyone. UPDATE: Doing a bit of fact-checking to make sure I am still up-to-date with the white paper info and e-mails I receive on a daily basis, I found via a Google search that the HD-DVD camp has actually very recently released several titles (it appears to be around half a dozen total at this time) using Microsoft's VC-1 variation of the h.264 spec. Titles include "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang", "Rumor Has It", "Training Day" and a handful of others that have been released on both disc formats, yet the HD-DVD camp is releasing the VC-1 CODEC while the BD-ROM folks are still putting out titles using MPEG-2. From the info I found, this appears Frankly, I will be happy when Blu-ray wins this so-called format war and stomps HD-DVD into the dust. Remember, Apple chose BD-R, and Microsoft chose HD-DVD. Looking at recent history over the last 10 years or so,Microsoft has ALWAYS backed the losing format (it didn't want DVD to win!), and Apple has ALWAYS chosen the winner. The fact that Sony is the king daddy of all media, and the literal billions of dollars they have invested is a clear indicator that they will come out on top. They make absolutely EVERY piece of the chain, from cameras for acquisition, to the NLE's to edit, to the PC's to edit on, to the decks to transfer to, to the tape to capture store it on, to the BD-R optical media and the players that support it, to the movie, music and distribution companies, and on and on it goes. Also, more companies are backing and supporting the BD-R format than HD-DVD (hundreds for BD-R vs. around a dozen or less for HD-DVD!). The final straw that will break the back of HD-DVD is the fact that Blu-ray has already released their 50 GB media, which anyone can purchase from a retailer today. This disc size is already 20 GB larger than HD-DVD's paltry MAXIMUM file size of 30 GB (they have already done extensive testing over the last few years, and cannot break the dual-layer syndrome due to the wavelength, laser color and refraction rates). The BD-R folks have previously demonstrated 75, 100 and now 200 GB's on a single disc that works effectively and flawlessly. This is primarily due to the BD-R violet laser's much shorter wavelength. FYI, 100 GB BD-R media is a quad layer, and with each layer accounting for 25 GB's throughout BD-R's schema, a 200 GB disc would be an 8-layer disc. Take THAT, HD-DVD! BTW, the earlier fuss and bother about no backwards compatibility with our standard def DVD's was all for naught. Not only will all of the BD-R players support standard DVD's, but CD's as well. With the early failings of the HD-DVD players in April and May of this year (2006- they had 97% player returns from defective hardware), HD is off to a slow and very rocky start, with no sign of relief on the horizon. Guys, sorry for the severe thread hijack! I just thought I would pass along this interesting and hopefully helpful info. Have a great weekend everyone! Scot (in reply to IMG) |
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Lthrboots Posts: 1846 Joined: 10/1/2006 Status: offline
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Well, my software (VEGAS) does not have the option of saving my videos as FLV, so that is my biggest concern. I don't want to have to create a video and then re-render it again in another software (which I don't have yet). Plus, if I tried to render it as FLV, I would have to first render the video in my main software, and then drag it into Flash and re-render it....a lot of time wasted in my opinion. Second, I know a good handful of people who work in buildings/offices that don't allow Flash to be viewed on the company computers, or even on personal computers using thei Internet connection. I have often asked them to check out my flash videos on their work break, but they said the network at their workplace won't allow it....so people in places like this would have to wait to get home to check out any new uploads. For me, my preference is to leave it the way it is......but the comment on uploading the file in whatever format you want and letting the viewer decide if they want to view it or not is also viable. I like the QT format myself....and my software renders QT, so I would never upload as FLV anyway. My videos would always be WMV, QT, AVI, or not uploaded at all. OK, that's my $0.02 _____________________________ www.JGJMedia.com Jerry@JGJMedia.com www.Lthrboots.com Jerry@Lthrboots.com www.JerryGJones.com Jerry@JerryGJones.com -------------------------------------- (in reply to Matt) |
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IMG Posts: 862 Joined: 3/23/2006 From: Irmo, SC Status: offline
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Great info, Jerry! I agree. We have used Vegas as a backup of sorts, and to have it in case a customer or fellow editor needs to port out his project, and you are right, that unless you upgrade to the newest version of MainConcept Media Encoder, you won't have that facility available to you (Which is AWESOME, INCREDIBLE and probably the single most powerful encoder on the market today IMHO! Even stronger than Sorenson, which I also like a lot!). The funny thing is about that argument against the Flash plug-in is, that it is a completely knee-jerk irrationational response when you consider these facts:
Now, I am not ranting against what you said, but simply lamenting the sheer insanity that some people see as it is "ok" to install QT, but not the Flash plug-in. That is a call made from sheer ignorance of the two competing technologies. Neither Flash nor QT is 100% secure and can be used to make API (advanced programming) calls to the Windows system, although both can be tempered and tamed to a point that it can be considered benign. OSX is less affected by nonsense from either technology, although it is technically possible to do some of the same things to a Mac as a PC, it is far less likely these days, unlike the early days where Apple was the first and ONLY target of the original viruses (like the Melissa, the DaVinci, the Hello and the doomsday countdown viri). Scot (in reply to Lthrboots) |
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Matt Posts: 5743 Joined: 5/15/2003 From: Oak Ridge, NC Status: offline
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Scot, You put a lot of good info out, and I think people are interested in hearing what you have to say, but it might come across better if you don't use terms like "completely knee jerk irrational response" ,"sheer insanity" and "Sheer ignorance". Phrases like that are what cause people to get worked up and respond in negative ways and in the end not want to listen. I don't think it is ignorance, insanity or irrational for a company to want to go with a proven technology that works well and has worked well for many many years. I also don't think it is wrong for people to not want to have to buy new software to do something they can already do in their NLE's. I think as a community we are interested in your views and ideas as well as everyones, it's just harder to listen to when phrases like that are used. < Message edited by Matt -- 11/25/2006 2:19:41 PM > _____________________________ mattjanowsky.com (in reply to IMG) |
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arcwin Posts: 275 Joined: 5/4/2006 From: Phoenix, AZ but miss Cleveland, OH! Status: offline
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Well said Matt.
(in reply to Matt) |
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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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Ditto
_____________________________ Pops (in reply to arcwin) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Ditto to that Wizzo
(in reply to wizard) |
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Faroshuffle Posts: 519 Joined: 10/4/2003 From: Sacramento, CA Status: offline
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I'm only gonna chime in regarding us users out here, who aren't necessarily certified experts in given technologies. I want something that: 1. Works. 2. Is cost effective to both me and my customers. 3. Doesn't fall by the wayside in 12 months because its novelty wore off. 4. Doesn't change my digital workflow too much, because I have a set way of doing things that is proven...for me. Be it Flash, QT, or whatever, just thinking out loud, those are some of my basic requirements. In examining point number 1, I understand, and acknowledge, that Flash probably does work well in many environments. Perhaps, even all environments. There are a multitude of reasons why we all utilize what we've chosen. Vegas vs. Premiere, Pinnacle vs. Ulead...Chevy vs. Dodge  , and the format wars never end. The bottom line is personal choice and/or business decision. Be it at an individual level, or a company level, we use what we like, know, and are comfortable with. This is only my take on an impossible subject, but I, for one, would not look forward to format changes on the DJ end, when what is up, works. I don't suspect the goal of the galleries and showcase is to give you high quality previews, it's to give you a reference point. They serve their purpose well. DJ has invested a lot of manpower and money into the technologies they use, and it's proven. Doesn't mean they should or shouldn't change. It simply means it 'works'. Looking at point number 2, 'cost effective'. Free or not, it's more time to learn another technology. Granted, we all should continue to learn and grow, but we have to be careful, or we find ourselves trying to consume every new technology that comes out. Time is money. Speaking as a small (read 'one man') operation, I have to be VERY selective about what 'new' subject I study. Videography, photography, lighting, composition, pre-production, post production, editing, compositing, titling, 3D animation & design, customer relations, record keeping, financial management, advertising, print, DVD authoring....and the list goes on. QT is embedded in the way DJ does things, from the Juicer to the website, from the DVD's we get to the showcase we upload to. There are so many cost related issues to such 'seemingly' simple changes. What is cost effective to DJ? What is cost effective to DJ's customer base? Only DJ has that answer. Point number 3, we all know how 'flighty' the tech world is. I'm not saying Flash will disappear. It may very well stick around for a long time. Maybe it won't. 'Nuff said. Point number 4 is a big one for me...and I suspect for most people, regardless of your platform (Mac/Win/Linux, etc). I'm on a windows based platform, running 5 PC's out of my home office. All are integrated, with zero problems, using QT and the various other technologies. Yes, Flash does exist on them. Does it get used in my case? No, not really. 4 of my PC's are used strictly for client work. They are off the grid most of the time. As I stated, DJ has heavily integrated QT into their products. That's what we use. If that changes, because I like DJ products, then I'll probably change with their growth. But, for now, QT it is. I think this is a healthy discussion, and it has opened my eyes a bit as to keeping an eye on Flash. Maybe I will start learning about it. I appreciate and embrace new technology. I will keep an open mind, as I'm sure most here will. For now, I can't say I've experienced Flash looking better than QT. In closing, not to beat a dead horse, we should all strive to utilize constructive language in our communications. Sure, it may take a few extra minutes to re-word things now and then, but aggressive phrases tend to turn people off, and indeed, push a few buttons now and then. As a person with extensive experience in negotiating, conflict resolution and speaking, some 'buzz phrases' here even put me off for a moment or two. But, in the end, hey, they are just words. I don't believe for a single minute that any ill will was meant by anyone. We type faster than we think sometimes... . Sometimes, our passion for something comes across as aggressive, when all we were trying to do is speak from a knowledgeable position. I, for one, look forward to seeing more on the subject of Flash. Hey, we now have a go-to-guy for Flash!!! Way to go Scot! So, I suspect, much like Mac vs. PC....etc. etc., this is another one of those discussions that we should steer in a completely healthy direction. State your viewpoints and be considerate. How boring would life be if we all shared the exact same viewpoints! My .02 Have a great weekend JUICERS!!!!!! _____________________________ "The principle is to put your camera into positions that give people perspectives they wouldn’t ordinarily see." Chuck Peters, Digital Juice 265+ DJ Products and Counting (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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Faroshuffle Posts: 519 Joined: 10/4/2003 From: Sacramento, CA Status: offline
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HIJACK!!!!! Hey, I broke 400 posts!!!! 500, here I come! _____________________________ "The principle is to put your camera into positions that give people perspectives they wouldn’t ordinarily see." Chuck Peters, Digital Juice 265+ DJ Products and Counting (in reply to Faroshuffle) |
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Lthrboots Posts: 1846 Joined: 10/1/2006 Status: offline
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Congrats Faro....I am still trying to break 50....LMAO ----------------------- Yes, the arguments/discussions on the QT and Flash stuff could continue forever.....it's about like trying to resolve a PC/MAC preference......the PC/MAC "wars" will continue forever and ever. As for my software status, I use a PC, use both QT AND Flash for things on my websites, and have no problem with either of them. Flash is great for reducing file size when creating Flash intros/music players/ etc....and QT is great for having manual control of the video that's playing (and the MAC people love QT).....I will continue to use both, but I won't ask DJ to change their file type so suit me. They seem to have everything running smoothly, and it works for a large majority of their visitors (both MAC and PC), so my stance on it is, "if it's not borken, don't fix it".....I'm fine with the QT files......but if you decide to change to Flash, I will adapt.....I'm flexible......(just give me a warning first so I can start saving money to upgrade my Flash software to keep up....I'm still using Flash MX suite, and would prefer to jump up the newest Flash/Macromedia suite if the file type will be changing here soon.....a month notice is good enough for me....but just don't spring it on us too quick....my credit card is already maxing out from taking advantage of all these DJ holiday deals......I need a breather to let my wallet recover) OK, blah blah blah.....lots of babbling....must be the coffee this morning....LOL..... _____________________________ www.JGJMedia.com Jerry@JGJMedia.com www.Lthrboots.com Jerry@Lthrboots.com www.JerryGJones.com Jerry@JerryGJones.com -------------------------------------- (in reply to Faroshuffle) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Ditto to the blah....and babbing
(in reply to Lthrboots) |
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Faroshuffle Posts: 519 Joined: 10/4/2003 From: Sacramento, CA Status: offline
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Ditto to the coffee thing!
_____________________________ "The principle is to put your camera into positions that give people perspectives they wouldn’t ordinarily see." Chuck Peters, Digital Juice 265+ DJ Products and Counting (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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Zacbray Posts: 1980 Joined: 7/9/2004 From: Bartlett, TN (Just outside Memphis) Status: offline
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Do we have a new Martyr on our hands? This is a good thread as an example of why scores were locked away from the general community. Information is good until it becomes a personal thing then it can get a bit heated. I like QT but our Internet guy likes Flash. I like Apples you like oranges. I like the Cowboys you like those other teams. JP, I say until something comes along that far exceeds and surplants the quality of QT...stick with what you've got. _____________________________ Fred Matthews Spot Prod. Love Worth Finding Ministry Avid Media Composer 2.7 hp workstation xw-8400 3 GB RAM AE 6.5 PS CS (in reply to Faroshuffle) |
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JP Shook Posts: 1070 Joined: 5/1/2003 From: Ocala, FL Status: offline
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Thanks for the support y'all... QuickTime works and until there is something waaay better we will stick with it. Otherwise everytime some new format comes along I will be redoing stuff over and over and never get any of these new enhancments finalized.... (in reply to Zacbray) |
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MikeM Posts: 2347 Joined: 2/25/2005 From: Germany Status: offline
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Yep, agreed. QT works fine and is pretty much a standard common delivery format. No need to jump on every (more or less) new horse...
_____________________________ Michael Lt. Cmdr. Data: If the warp drive fails to activate, the results could be... unfortunate. Lieutenant Worf: Very unfortunate. We will be dead. i7 / Win7 64 Bit SP1; Avid MC 6.5; Adobe CS6 PP; Nuendo 2-6; Wavelab 7; C4D R12 (in reply to JP Shook) |
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Lthrboots Posts: 1846 Joined: 10/1/2006 Status: offline
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Yes, QT is working fine in here, and everyone is used to it....why change horses mid-stream....it works for me....and I already updated my QT player to the latest codecs, etc. so I would like to stick to it. If we vote/poll on it, I would vote for QT.....Flash is cool and sleek and advanced, but until QT starts causing viewing problems, I say we keep it......but what do I know...I'm just a newbie....and only have about 2 of those red dot-orb-spot thingys....;) _____________________________ www.JGJMedia.com Jerry@JGJMedia.com www.Lthrboots.com Jerry@Lthrboots.com www.JerryGJones.com Jerry@JerryGJones.com -------------------------------------- (in reply to MikeM) |
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Richard M Posts: 1070 Joined: 5/6/2006 From: New Jersey Status: offline
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JP...work on the other stuff...that's most important...let the force be with you.
(in reply to Lthrboots) |
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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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Gee Wiz JP - you make it sound like you actually work there . . . oh wait . . . you do. All we have to think about now - is: "What would JP do..." 
_____________________________ Pops (in reply to Richard M) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Wizard: We're not all a multi-millionaire like you...some of us have to slave to make a living...
(in reply to wizard) |
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Graham Posts: 2287 Joined: 9/10/2003 From: Sunny Warm Florida Status: offline
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This thread got me a little more curious and so I did a little testing of my own in a totally unscientific way, (Never was any good at science anyway). Last night my wife says to me, hey I can't believe it, I forgot to record Grays Anatomy. Fear not i say, abc.com has the shows online so you can watch in bed on your laptop. Great she says, so she settles in to watch grays...well, up pops the flash plug in and it seems to be working fine, even a nice picture which I thought hmm, Scott might be onto something here....thats when it all went to pieces. My wife's laptop froze and i consistently got a loading screen. Not to worry, I thought, i'll try using my laptop, and I got a little further. 30 minutes into the show it froze again and never came back. i tried reloading again from scratch but found, i could not wind forward to wear i left off. After that I went to sleep. Sorry to say, was not impressed. But it looked good while it was playing... _____________________________ Graham (in reply to wizard) |
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Runamok Posts: 1276 Joined: 6/27/2006 From: Menifee, CA Status: offline
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Yeah...I hate flash as you can't download it and watch later. No Thanks in my opinion.
_____________________________ Well...that's my story and I am sticking to it! Dan www.clearshotvideo.com My Showcase (in reply to Graham) |
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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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This was done in error, but could not figure out how to delete the post. My bad. < Message edited by wizard -- 11/27/2006 8:15:08 PM > _____________________________ Pops (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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I guess you can delete a post's content by editing. In the edit, delete what you said. Or come up with an another answer.
(in reply to wizard) |
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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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quote: That's what I did. But couldn't delete the post, just the content. 
_____________________________ Pops (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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Runamok Posts: 1276 Joined: 6/27/2006 From: Menifee, CA Status: offline
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I have that issue sometimes too Bill. Some posts have the delete button and some don't, I have never figured out if there was a rhyme or reason to this. As an example the post I did above yours does not give me the option to delete it. _____________________________ Well...that's my story and I am sticking to it! Dan www.clearshotvideo.com My Showcase (in reply to wizard) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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I was going to have another beer...to see if a delete button appears...so I have seen one before...right?
(in reply to Runamok) |
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jmeredith Posts: 836 Joined: 9/4/2003 From: Oregon/Hawaii Status: offline
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quote: Flash files are downloaded into the Temporary Internet Files directory so anything I want to save for later/watch again... I just move from this directory to the folder of my choice and rename it to something meaningful 
(in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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quote: Like "long walks on the beach"?
_____________________________ Pops (in reply to jmeredith) |
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jmeredith Posts: 836 Joined: 9/4/2003 From: Oregon/Hawaii Status: offline
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Filenames like this (im_giftsMulti1_US_728x90.swf) don't tend to stick in my head so I change them to something I can remember Long walks on the beach??? Are you trying to get rid of me???  No... that would be a long walk on a short pier right??? Although... I think you're on to something so maybe I'll put the laptop down and walk out in the front yard (see image below) and go for a walk  
(in reply to wizard) |
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Matt Posts: 5743 Joined: 5/15/2003 From: Oak Ridge, NC Status: offline
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Going in and looking for temporary files then moving them to another folder and renaming them just to watch a show again sounds like a major pain, with QT it's right there and with itunes it's right there with a picture preview that looks really cool. I'm all about improving things but I just can't see the improvement with flash, at least not yet.
_____________________________ mattjanowsky.com (in reply to jmeredith) |
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jmeredith Posts: 836 Joined: 9/4/2003 From: Oregon/Hawaii Status: offline
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It's not a major pain and it doesn't take more than 10 seconds to accomplish... I wasn't commenting on QT vs. Flash or anything else regarding this thread and the hubbub it has caused. I was responding specifically to Dan's comment that he couldn't download it or save it for later and trying to be helpful so that Dan and others would know that they could, if they chose to, get the file/show/video/whatever and save it (in reply to Matt) |
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Matt Posts: 5743 Joined: 5/15/2003 From: Oak Ridge, NC Status: offline
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no problem, thanks
_____________________________ mattjanowsky.com (in reply to jmeredith) |
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Runamok Posts: 1276 Joined: 6/27/2006 From: Menifee, CA Status: offline
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That is good to know. I have never went hunting for them and there have been ones I wanted to keep. I will keep that tip in mind next time I have that need. Thanks Julie _____________________________ Well...that's my story and I am sticking to it! Dan www.clearshotvideo.com My Showcase (in reply to jmeredith) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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More than likely the flv loads into the player and nerver hit the temp folder. This is one way one can make it so you don't get the video. Flv stays on the server and is only loaded into the player... Check on a window's pc and see if the flv is there, as for a mac it isn't...
(in reply to Matt) |
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jmeredith Posts: 836 Joined: 9/4/2003 From: Oregon/Hawaii Status: offline
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FLVs are there on my Windows PC...
(in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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womanmarine Posts: 333 Joined: 10/8/2006 From: North Carolina Status: offline
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Not on mine, and I have even done a search for the file name and found nothing, after I just watched it.
(in reply to jmeredith) |
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Runamok Posts: 1276 Joined: 6/27/2006 From: Menifee, CA Status: offline
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I don't have any .flv files on my PC
_____________________________ Well...that's my story and I am sticking to it! Dan www.clearshotvideo.com My Showcase (in reply to womanmarine) |
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David M. Brewer Posts: 1659 Joined: 11/11/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
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Can you play them???
(in reply to jmeredith) |
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jmeredith Posts: 836 Joined: 9/4/2003 From: Oregon/Hawaii Status: offline
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Here is a screenshot of what I have and they play correctly. I don't actually download and watch tv shows/movies and that may be the difference... the stuff I get includes training videos/showcase reels/music demos/etc e.g., from sites like this http://www.theanvel.com/ and this http://www.ononesoftware.com/  (in reply to David M. Brewer) |
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