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Sandbar Posts: 20 Joined: 1/30/2007 Status: offline
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Hi all, It's my dad's 60th birthday in a few months, and as such, I would like to do a video presentation (comprising mainly of scanned photos) on the day. Has anyone done such a presentation? Any tips or techniques you can share? Links to tutorials, etc.? I really love the 3d layered type look, where the camera pans over the photo and it appears to give a parallax sort of effect. Any pointers on how to do this? This seems to me to be a very time consuming process though, but would be willing to spend the time to make it look good. But that said, any tips on streamlining the process to make it less time consuming would be cool too. I basically want to get away from a boring slideshow and keep the party guests semi-interested for 10-15 minutes. If it helps, I will be using After Effects 6.5 and Premiere Pro 1.5. Oh, and as I only just discovered Digital Juice - I alas, have no motion elements, juice drops etc., I can incorporate into the video presentation (but rest assured, I will be purchasing these wonderful products) - still, might be a great idea for a Take 5 DJTV spot - how to do effective photo video montages. :) Thanks for any ideas, Sandbar. |
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Photo Video Montage Ideas Anyone? - 
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IMG Posts: 862 Joined: 3/23/2006 From: Irmo, SC Status: offline
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We have done quite a few of these over the last 5 years or so. Feel free to contact me via e-mail, and I will gladly assist you with any questions you may have. Scot _____________________________ ==== Scot ==== JD 37, 39, 40, 42, 46, 49 ST 4, 10, 12, 13 ETK 1-10, PTK HDJB 1-10 DJTV 1-3 (in reply to Sandbar) |
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rjf Posts: 134 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: offline
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Scot can probably help more than I can, but for what it's worth... I did a very well received slideshow/video thing for my brother and our Las Vegas / Disneyland trip... I guess it lasted 10min or so . Basically I broke the 10 minutes into 4 plots.... casinos, the trip from LV to Los Angeles, the initial day at Disneyland and the last day at our relatives' house. Each "plot" had different music and a distinct feel. 1.) Vegas had lots of fast cuts and quick movement with Techno music, a la Ocean's Eleven 2.) the road trip had an Indiana Jones adventure quest feel, complete with a map overlay of southern California and a red line marking our course (think Raiders, when Indy first leaves the US and lands in Nepal) 3.) Disneyland was done as a silent movie slideshow with ragtime music, scratches, dirt, etc... and the motion tile transition (which should NEVER be used normally but worked here). I even intentionally added an upside-down slide, followed with a "One Moment Please" card, then the original slide corrected right-side up. 4.) The last section was a sentimental piece that was interspursed with photos of Disneyland trips when we were growing up, done to sappy "Wonderful World of Disney" type music I guess my point is that I broke it up into sections because my "audience" has a very short attention span and wouldn't sit through 10 minutes of photos that were all presented the same. This formula would obviously not work for a 60s birthday party but you get the idea... You're limited only through your imagination! (and time of course too...) As to the meat of your question and for links on the 3D picture thing, here are some tutorials that have helped me: http://www.adobeevangelists.com/aftereffects/index.html (look for the .pdf document labeled "The 3D picture trick", but you need photoshop) http://forums.creativecow.net/articles/kramer_andrew/slideshows/slideshow.htm http://www.ayatoweb.com/ae_tips_e/ae31_e.html Good luck! _____________________________ Juice Drops 10, 22, 30, 33, 34, 41, 43, 46, 48, 49 StackTraxx 11, 18 BackTraxx 1 SoundFX Jump Backs 8 Jump Backs HD 5, 12, 15 VideoTraxx 3 DJTV season 1 (in reply to IMG) |
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leebo Posts: 399 Joined: 12/6/2006 From: Mingo Junction, Ohio Status: offline
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http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/segment_detail.asp?sid=55&sortby=&page=6&kwid=0&show=all_videos There's a few great tips right there if you've got any JumpBacks. Keep an eye on the boards on Wend. as often DJ will give out Free samples...maybe you'll luck out. :D I'm working on just about my 15th one right now, and once you get the hang of it, it really starts to flow. If you want any help, drop me an email.... ltongate@sbcglobal.net < Message edited by leebo -- 2/6/2007 8:29:58 PM > (in reply to rjf) |
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Lotocus Posts: 156 Joined: 1/31/2007 Status: offline
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I agree that breaking it up into section is a great way to keep the audience entertained. Maybe for a 60th birthday you can break it into time periods... You might want to pick up today's Groovy Deal - I'm sure there are probably some picture of your dad that are just screaming "GROOOOOOOOOOOVYYYYYYY" Good luck and have fun. (in reply to rjf) |
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womanmarine Posts: 333 Joined: 10/8/2006 From: North Carolina Status: offline
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These are just two sections I am working on for a family video of old photographs, and a family chronology. These are rough, but I have an unbelievable amount of old photos!! http://www.glitterstuff.com/images/Moments.wmv and http://www.glitterstuff.com/images/KateSmith.wmv They are too big to be uploaded to showcase!! _____________________________ Ruth (in reply to Lotocus) |
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JasonGaines Posts: 2306 Joined: 2/17/2006 From: South Windsor, CT. Status: offline
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I do that all the time on projects for my clients as well. It really allows you to be more creative as well, so that you arent stuck with trying to make one link continuous video of the images. _____________________________ 
(in reply to Lotocus) |
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Dave Sawyer Posts: 165 Joined: 4/9/2004 From: DC / Baltimore Area Status: offline
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There may indeed be many plug-ins available for Premiere and After Effects that can help you get the job done. As I understand it... this is a special project (perhaps a one time type of thing for your dad) if this is the case you'll probably invest little into new software or plug-ins. If it's not however... You've got your work cut out for you searching for plug-ins and/or software for project. Plug-in's for Premiere and After Effects do little to automate the process. They generally don't take in a batch of photos and then scale each one indiviually / panning / scanning each in a slightly different way. This is what makes these types of productions unique. For MAC owners... there are standard items like I-Photo and I-Movie that make this slightly easier.... Software like I-Photo / I Movie and the MAC screensaver all automate PAN and SCAN... applying different attributes of scale / start / stop points to individual photos. (Usually with subtle movements... which work well with this type of production.) I-Movie allows you to change the attributes for each photo. Roxio offers products for both the MAC and PC which will makes this an easier production; often with titling and other types of transition for you to chose. For the PC look at two different types of products that are very powerful and can in some cases fully automate a really interesting production. However they both cost real money. $250 -- $350. 3D Album http://www.3d-album.com/newstyles.php does this exceptionally well and even allows you to build a walk-away DVD for others to take with them. Another program is called ProShow Producer --- it's really powerful and has a shorter learning curve... It's very intuitive. http://www.photodex.com/products/producer/new.html Hope this helps Dave Sawyer _____________________________ Alway's Remember; There is No Spoon... Call Early.... Call Often (in reply to Sandbar) |
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cdavis Posts: 720 Joined: 5/24/2006 From: Willmar, MN Status: offline
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Photo Story 3 is free from Microsoft and will create the panning "Ken Burns" effect very easily. Vasst also offers a plug-in for Vegas to do the same thing.
_____________________________ Chris Davis - Famous Davis Productions (in reply to Dave Sawyer) |
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sevenhills Posts: 346 Joined: 1/28/2007 From: Lynchburg VA. Status: offline
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I don't know if this is what your after but it may give you some Ideas, I posted this to the showcase the other day. I do these on occasion. I usually try to pick out the music first and then match up the pics and clips to the mood, Just let your imagination go. This paticular show was done with AL6 (this is the first time I have tried to hyperlink on these boards, smack my hand if I did something wrong) My little girls Slideshow Mike < Message edited by sevenhills -- 2/8/2007 10:50:10 AM > _____________________________ Mike Norris Lynchburg, VA Your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open. (in reply to cdavis) |
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ECoke Posts: 4 Joined: 1/13/2007 Status: offline
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Ruth I love your choice of music..any chance you can tell me song title and singer of 1st video....could it be "moments"...??? thank you! Ed (in reply to sevenhills) |
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womanmarine Posts: 333 Joined: 10/8/2006 From: North Carolina Status: offline
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Hi Ed: If I remember correctly, it's Moments to Remember. I'll have to do some searching in my backup files to find the exact title and artist. I'll do that later today and post it. Thanks for the compliment! _____________________________ Ruth (in reply to ECoke) |
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ECoke Posts: 4 Joined: 1/13/2007 Status: offline
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Thank you..You've done enough..already found it on itunes...yes you are right on title..and MANY sang it..thanks again! Ed 
(in reply to womanmarine) |
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leebo Posts: 399 Joined: 12/6/2006 From: Mingo Junction, Ohio Status: offline
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Today's free download is a GREAT song for a photo montage. I'm working on one right now for my brother and it's in it for sure. It's a slower paced, up-beat song great for these types of projects.
(in reply to ECoke) |
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Sandbar Posts: 20 Joined: 1/30/2007 Status: offline
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Wow - firstly, thanks for all the kind suggestions and comments. Very much appreciated. Secondly, sorry for the delay in responding - I hadn't forgotten you, DJ!  Scot and leebo- thanks for the offer, I will be sure to have a chat when I get started. At the moment, I'm just trying to find the momentous effort of will to scan in hundreds of photos I've collected from friends and families and trying to figure out how to present them in some sort of sense.  hehe rjf - Thank you so very much for the links - especially to that 3D picture trick. This is just what I was looking for. And you make a good point about breaking it down into sections. I figure I will break it up into either periods in history - thanks for the idea Lotocus - (eg., the 50's, 60's, 70's, etc) and have one song representing that decade (I know, this is ambitious of me!  ). But I figure, what will be better will be to have sections like "cars", "jobs", "family", "childhood memories", "fishing" etc. Ive already chosen some great songs that would be awesome for a photo montage (eg., In My Life - The Beatles, Memories - Barbara Streisand), but I figure I might want to have some more upbeat songs to wake the audience up. hehe. Ruth - great choice of songs there! I haven't tried anything like this before, so I'll be sure to use your efforts as a learning guide for my own endeavours. Great montages btw. Would be great to see the finished product. Oh, and I'm just beginning to know what you mean by having hundreds of photos to get through. Dave - interesting pointers on the plug-ins. I figured there would be some plug-in to do it all for me in After Effects, but that's just the lazy part of me talking. hehe. Those products you mentioned look pretty good, and I will definitely check them out. Especially as I may want to provide this service for other clients some time down the track. It's good to have a quick and effective solution for that sort of thing. Thanks for the info! Chris - thanks dude - I will look into it. The word "free" always makes my eyes light up. hehe Mike - nice video montage there! And thanks too for directing me to the showcase - there's inspiration right there too! I will be sure to take notes from you when it comes to making my own montage. Thanks - oh, and it looks great too! Cheers! I hope I have responded to everyone - thanks for all your help. Oh, and leebo - my eyes are lit up again at the mention of "free" download? :) Where is this located? Just on a related note - I just happened to turn the tv on this morning, and I saw a music video clip of the song "Window in the Skies" by U2. I must say - this looked awesome! It must have taken forever to put together. I wish I could do this sort of thing - but I think that would be overly ambitious of me. If you want to see what I'm talking about, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMyHG5FEkAc Maybe I could start learning how to do this for my Dad's 70th birthday instead. Probably take me that long to learn the techniques used in that music clip. hehe Cheers, Sandbar. (in reply to leebo) |
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IMG Posts: 862 Joined: 3/23/2006 From: Irmo, SC Status: offline
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Here are a few previous montage projects that I did to hopefully help you generate some new ideas: ANNIVERSARY MONTAGE (older video, traditional style for very conservative client) PHOTO MONTAGE for wedding clients, which was shown at their rehearsal dinner & recieved HUGE response BIRTHDAY MONTAGE Starts slow, normal and semi-boring, builds up to a fever pitch with some VERY cool, new tricks Generally speaking, I always break up pics into smaller groups, and start to pre-plan which customer-supplied songs will work best for those groups, and arrange each group for maximum impact, keeping in mind that there should be "peaks" and "valleys" in the pace, tempo and mood. I intentionally pre-conceive what mood that I am trying to evoke (laughter, tears, grins & smiles, the big "AWWWW" factor, etc.), and attempt to take the viewer on a ride, hopefully leaving them with the feeling of wanting more, yet satisfied. One thing to note, is that everyone's own stock of family photos always carries with them a more personal attachment than watching somebody else's stuff. Also, when you watch the videos on a larger screen with great audio, you can manipulate the audience response you get a little bit more, too. Especially important is to have clear high end and a nice bottom end "whoomp" for some songs. The diminishing background trick is certainly not new, but always has a great impact when used with the right photos. As I take an initial look at all of the pics as I am scanning or reviewing them, I see what type of ideas speak to me for each photo. Does something already look funny in the pic? Great, capitalize on that and amplify it even more. Does it have that big "Awwww" moment (animals and kids qualify for this category the most, but couples kissing work well for that, too)? Use it and make it even more pronounced. I try to let each item tell me what it wants to be, then try to figure out if it would fit better in another section, even if the client has asked that it be in a section other than what I am trying to place it in. Award-winning David Robin of Boulevard video and his crew are masters at removing the foreground subjects, adding them into their own unique, virtual spaces, and taking the viewer on a virtual tour. SOME of his stuff makes my stuff look pathetic in comparison IMHO. HOWEVER, I have had no less than FIVE clients in the last 6 months look at his stuff and say NO WAY, I HATE that! When I show them a more basic approach, they were appeased. It just goes to show you that there is no magic bullet, one size fits all type of production for every client situation. Different strokes for different folks. I think the very begining and the ending of THIS video of his is the very best. This is a compilation from several clients, and the one at the end with the leaves is INCREDIBLE (he showed it a WEVA Town Meeting last March). The bottom line is, that you need to have an overall concept going into the production. As in any type of media, pre-production is king. Knowing where you want to take a video, from start to finish, but by breaking it up into smaller, more manageable tasks helps alleviate the feeling of being overwhelmed. If you do an advanced type of production, charge accordingly for it. David Robin charges $50 per photo. Yes, you read that right, fifty bucks EACH. BUT, they are correcting it for scratches, redeye, etc., cutting (masking) it out in AE (I thought this was strange, I prefer Photoshop, but either will work). We only charge $5.00 per phot by comparison, because our market will not support that level of expensive. People gripe about $250-$450 per montage when they haven't seen our work, claiming the friend or family member can create "the same thing" using Windows Movie Maker (HAHAHAHAHA!). When they see our stuff, 90% agree that they were wrong. I have had about 10-15% of my clients come to me after failing miserably trying to do it themselves, or having "Uncle Bob" trying to do it. I always try to match my customers needs, real or percieved, with the right level of montage work, and to manage their expectations along every step of the way. This is what I was going to say previously, but simply did not have the time to research the links and type all of the content in (Rian sort of stole my thunder, but hey, at least he got the info out, that's what counts). Good luck, and if you have any other questions, feel free to e-mail or call me, I'll be glad to help you out anytime. I have a thousand and one other tips and tricks to creat IDEAS for new, fresh, never done before montages. The final frontier truly is CREATIVITY, not just using Juice products by themselves, or the song selections, and any one of a handful of tricks that can be performed. It is in the execution of the final product that counts, and how well it meets your client's needs for their occasion. Scot _____________________________ ==== Scot ==== JD 37, 39, 40, 42, 46, 49 ST 4, 10, 12, 13 ETK 1-10, PTK HDJB 1-10 DJTV 1-3 (in reply to Sandbar) |
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JasonGaines Posts: 2306 Joined: 2/17/2006 From: South Windsor, CT. Status: offline
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quote: Exactly what I have had happen in the past. People never trust that we are doing this stuff because we are maybe, I dont know, good at it??? Its why demo's are the best thing to have on hand, because unless they SEE what you can do, there is always the slight doubt that they can actually do it just as well, with Windows Movie Maker, lol. I've got a couple of demos on the showcase here and the same ones on my site right now for this type of work, and hope to have more up soon. I just have to take some clips from my projects and put them up. _____________________________
(in reply to IMG) |
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leebo Posts: 399 Joined: 12/6/2006 From: Mingo Junction, Ohio Status: offline
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On the top of the page there's a button titled "My Account". Click on it. On that page there's another link for a free download. It varies on what product it is from week to week. Hope you enjoy, this week's is a good one. :D (in reply to JasonGaines) |
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n513kk0 Posts: 167 Joined: 4/26/2005 Status: offline
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I did something for a neighbor a year or two ago that has three photo montages in it . I am a hobbyist so it was a total learning experience for me. use the password vcuser when prompted at ... http://kimtv.neptune.com?selectedalbum=kimtv208653 (it was before I started drinking the juice). All of the video footage was shot in my basement btw. KIM < Message edited by n513kk0 -- 2/10/2007 11:25:44 AM > _____________________________ kkinser@mindspring.com kimtv.neptune.com (in reply to leebo) |
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womanmarine Posts: 333 Joined: 10/8/2006 From: North Carolina Status: offline
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Kim: I would love to see it, but my browser is not supported :( _____________________________ Ruth (in reply to n513kk0) |
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wizard Posts: 6029 Joined: 2/15/2006 From: New Hampshire, USA Status: offline
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quote: Correction - any market in the US will support that, it the choice of DEMOGRAPHICS in that market that won't. Most of us choose our prices to match customers, instead of choosing customers to match our prices. (assuming the quality is capable of being worth the higher prices)
_____________________________ Pops (in reply to IMG) |
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John Carothers Posts: 806 Joined: 1/9/2004 From: Mesa, Arizona Status: offline
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quote: Same here. Even if I was using IE on a PC I wouldn't allow any Active X controls anyway. You are discarding a lot of potential viewers by requiring IE as the browser. Also, since MS doesn't make IE for the Mac anymore, you would be hard pressed to find it on a Mac. just my $0.03 john _____________________________ J2D:184 JB 1-38 JBHD 1-20 ETK 1-10 MDE 1-20 SW 1-10 VT 1-3 SFX 1-2 ST 1-21 BT 1-2 JD 1-52 DJTV S1 PTK 1 DJ 2.0 Swigglez (in reply to wizard) |
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IMG Posts: 862 Joined: 3/23/2006 From: Irmo, SC Status: offline
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Kim, I loved that video! Nice job of "cutting to the beat"! I did one very similar, with no dissolves or pans, about 3 1/2 years ago. I also really like the way you integrated the live video footage, and laughed my butt off with the moving lips part at the end. I have seen that software before but can't recall what it is. What is the name of it? You did a great job on that part, too! Very funny! I would like to integrate that into one of my upcoming pieces. Please let me know. BTW, the reason I even use typical pan and scan with dissolves in some of my projects, is that the clients EXPECT that and actually complain when its not in there. That is exactly why I have more extensive pre-production meetings with people prior to commencing the project, and offer several types or "levels" of montage production. Jason, I'm going to try to find your site and your videos, I always love watching what other people have done as well. Additionally, any feedback, good, bad or in-between on the ones I linked here is appreciated. People with discerning eyes percieve a video differently than a non-media savvy client. Scot _____________________________ ==== Scot ==== JD 37, 39, 40, 42, 46, 49 ST 4, 10, 12, 13 ETK 1-10, PTK HDJB 1-10 DJTV 1-3 (in reply to John Carothers) |
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sevenhills Posts: 346 Joined: 1/28/2007 From: Lynchburg VA. Status: offline
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Kim, You did a fantastic job on this, the pacing of the pics to the music was great, I'm assuming you used Visiual Communicator and some other tools to put this together, but I had to comment on that great key! Clap Clap Clap my hats off, great stuff. Mike _____________________________ Mike Norris Lynchburg, VA Your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open. (in reply to IMG) |
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n513kk0 Posts: 167 Joined: 4/26/2005 Status: offline
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John & Ruth. Not sure where else to host my stuff or what format would be a better solution. I am open to suggestion though as it benefits me to have more people able to view my output. Scot - The software for the moving stills is crazytalk. To make multiple people talk you need to get creative - I used a layer of video for each person and masked out the others then composited them together as one final picture with everyone flapping their gums. Mike - I used ultra2. I have VC but ultra really does a great job for me. The lighting was done with 6500k daylight deluxe fluorescents on some home made stands. Thank you all for your feedback. Sandbar - you have lots of wonderful options for your project. Keep in mind that it will take much longer the first time so START NOW and don't wait until the end. Scot had some very astute wisdom in his post about thinking through your project and breaking it into small, managable parts - read that one over and over. KIM _____________________________ kkinser@mindspring.com kimtv.neptune.com (in reply to sevenhills) |
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Sandbar Posts: 20 Joined: 1/30/2007 Status: offline
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Scot: Thank you so much for your post. It is very much appreciated. As per Kim's recommendation, I have read it a few times now, and viewed your photo montages (great work, btw). It's always good to hear from those who are actually producing this kind of stuff for clients. I liked the section where you utilised some objects of interest as transitional wipes (such as the baseball, teddy bear etc). That was extremely effective. And you make a good point about amplifying something that is already pronounced to give it more impact. I will keep this in mind when I go through the pictures in a couple of days. That Boulevard video site demos were *amazing*. Just on a side note, I also took a look at the beautiful wedding demo he has there, and there's a ton of great inspiration just in that few minutes of video alone (I'm talking about for video in general, not montages). The montage demo itself though, was exactly the type of thing I would hope to achieve one day - maybe not for my first montage with only about six weeks to spare, but definitely something to aspire to. And the shot with the leaves was BEAUTIFUL. My first reaction to hearing that five clients didn't like this kind of style, was "Are you kidding me?!!!". I thought maybe it was because of the cost associated with doing something of this magnitude, but then I watched the demo again and thought it could be due to the following reasons (oh and all due respect to David's work - which I think is amazing - I'm just theorising here : 1. I found that the most effective parts of the demo were where there was just a single central subject for the viewer to focus on. The beautiful scene with the falling leaves, for example. Just one thing (the woman) to focus on, and not a multitude of photos coming in from every direction. With a heap of subjects cut out and presented before you, flying through space, before you can take a good look at them, they're off the screen. Which brings me also to the subject of speed.... 2. I find the most effective treatment of the 3D picture trick (for me anyway) is when it's very subtle. The camera slowly pans, and you can see the subjects slightly becoming offset with the background. An ever so slight parallaxing effect. However, when there's multiple subjects flying through space, or the camera is switching to each image rapidly, it can become very offsetting - of course, I guess this depends on the mood of the piece and the music you are animating to. 3. It perhaps can get very distracting when you have photos of varying qualities and color tones etc., when you composite them in the same 3d space together. When the images you are compositing come from the same photo, or the same source, background, lighting etc., then it looks more "in place". I guess this is unavoidable in most instances, but I can see how this can be a detractor. 4. I also think in this sort of thing, you have to be very careful with cg and background elements. If it becomes a piece about the "special effects" and not the central subject, then the impact is lost. Not that this was a major problem in the Boulevard demo videos, but I can see how this could end up being a matter of taste to the client. 5. Not necessarily a problem in the montage demo, but I've found that When cutting out the foreground subject, if it's not a perfectly tight cut, the typical fringing that results around the image can be very distracting. Anyway - I just had trouble conceiving of the thought that someone would *hate* that kind of montage style (I personally thought it was great) - and I tried to think of the possible reasons for this as listed above - any thoughts from the pros out there? :) Again, thank you so much for your input, Scot. You should really write for the DJ magazine or something. Kim: Nice video Kim. Interesting seeing a video montage with just straight cuts. I'm guessing that this is down to the fact that most "sentimental" type montages have slower paced music where softer dissolves and pans work better. Good job though. Must have taken a while to put together. Oh, and the keying was top notch. You make a good point too about starting now than leaving it till later. With that in mind I'll start immediately. Well, tomorrow anyway. Bill: You make an interesting point about choosing prices to match customers instead of choosing customers to match prices. I live in a fairly small country town (25,000 people) and so while I love doing television commercials for clients, they seem to think fees that would be charged in a bigger city for the same type of work, quite unreasonable. Perhaps I should move to a bigger city where the customer base is alot more pleasant to match prices against. Just one question comes to mind at the moment - what are the thoughts of using textual elements throughout a montage. As someone who is viewing a photo montage (one of the guests for instance), pictures of people and places that have less or no meaning to them, might be better served with some sort of caption. eg "John's first car" or "Captain of basketball team 1975". But in all photo montages I've seen examples of - not a single one really has any sort of text in it apart from the intro. Is there a reason behind this? Does a montage lose it's impact if there is alot of text to read? I thought maybe at least some text indicating the year, place, or people might make it more interesting to the guests. But if it's better served without it, then I can make do without text. I'm guessing it's left out mainly because the montage is primarily for the client, and not that guests. But still...it makes me wonder if this is one of the reasons montages could be boring for the more detached viewer. Thanks for all the responses so far - great community here at DJ! Cheers, Kiah. (in reply to n513kk0) |
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IMG Posts: 862 Joined: 3/23/2006 From: Irmo, SC Status: offline
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WOW, Kiah, THANK YOU for all of the kudos! I appreciate your extra-kind comments, and of course I would love to write an article or two for DJ mag if they let me. I do have several articles that I have already written, or currently am writing for several other major magazines right now (Punto, WEVA Mag, and a couple of others). Hopefully those will be out in the next 6 months or so. As for the text question, I think the primary reason that it is not done is that it is too distracting to the viewer to take in all of that info, almost exactly as you properly diagnosed the David Robin videos issue. By the way, as of today, I have added two MORE clients this week who greatly preferred a more standard approach. Isn't that wild? I like David's stuff better myself...he and his team are masters at that appraoch. Also on a side note, I attended his seminar at WEVA Town Meeting last year in March, and have the complete notes and audio of that seminar describing how they did it. I say THEY because David did not do all of it himself. He has another helper who did all of the AE compositing stuff, and he just compiled it all in FCP on the Mac, and added the music after the fact. I find that to be a strange workflow, personally, but it works for them. Kim had some really great ideas in her piece, which are a completely different take on this. I like her video a LOT, and it goes a long way to showing you just what can be done using that approach. A jump cut can still work with pics, not just video. The "Lip Sync" segment using Crazytalk was extremely funny, and very well done. When I went to that company's website, I noticed that THEIR videos didn't look nearly as good as Kim's, so that really goes to show that it takes a lot more time, attention to detail and overall TLC to make a video work, REGARDLESS of the applications used. I have a new quotable saying that I have been using recently, over the last 2 or 3 years: The "Final Frontier" of multimedia development is not dependent on hardware or software tools, just creativty and THESE 3 "tools" (I say that last part as I hold up my two hands, then point to my forehead, supposedly indicating the brain). That's it, all the playing fields are being leveled now, even as we speak. HDV cameras, you can buy them dirt cheap. Did you know that the Fox TV show "24" is shot ENTIRELY on JVC GY-HD110U HDV cameras? Six grand will put one in your hands. I met the editor of 24 at WEVA EXPO in August, Heydar Adel. We spoke a while after everyone else left. He cuts on an Avid system, but it is nothing out of the ordinary, other than the overall storage that they have available. Fifteen grand will buy a similar system. At any rate, keep looking at other people's montages for inspiration in both what TO do, as well as what NOT to do sometimes. I find that inspiration also comes from watching TV, commercials and movies, even animated children's stuff. "Inspiration is where you find it" is another quote that I coined many, many years ago. Also, "If you keep an open mind, you will learn something new every day". All of that is certainly apropos for something as subjective and highly creative as a well-done photo montage. Good luck, and any time you need to do so, feel free to e-mail or call me directly, I really love to help people with any and all questions. I do that almost every single week of the year, from people who are well-known or more experienced "pros" to novices, to everyone else in between. That doesn't make me a "know it all", just someone who likes to share info, and help pass along cool tips to others, who hopefully will do the same and make this a better world for all. Geez, that sounds so sappy, doesn't it? But it IS true, I love to help, and the offer stands. BTW, send a link or please do post in the DJ Showcase once you put something together, I really would love to see it. Peace! Scot < Message edited by IMG -- 2/16/2007 2:18:30 PM > _____________________________ ==== Scot ==== JD 37, 39, 40, 42, 46, 49 ST 4, 10, 12, 13 ETK 1-10, PTK HDJB 1-10 DJTV 1-3 (in reply to Sandbar) |
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Sandbar Posts: 20 Joined: 1/30/2007 Status: offline
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Firstly, thanks to all contributions to this thread, especially Scot. Cheers dude. I just wanted to bring up some technical considerations that may or may not be an issue. 1. Colour-safe - is this something to worry about? 2. Prepping images - do you need to do any pre-preparation to images first before importing? In particular resizing before importing (though I guess if you are doing alot of panning and zooming, then you would bring all images in at max resolution, right? 3. Flickering issues - will this be a major problem in putting together photo montages? Is there a good fix for this? 4. Aspect ratio issues importing still images into a production for DV PAL output? I'll probably just chuck everything in and worry about the problems later. But it would be handy if anyone is aware of anything I should look out for that would make the workflow easier from the outset. Cheers, Kiah. (in reply to IMG) |
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JasonGaines Posts: 2306 Joined: 2/17/2006 From: South Windsor, CT. Status: offline
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1. Colour-safe - is this something to worry about? I would especially watch the RED color of your images. If you have images with brite reds, it will look VERY bad on TV. You want to tone down your reds in all your images. If there isn't any reds in the image or it is muted, you should be ok, but take note of that when prepping your images. 2. Prepping images - do you need to do any pre-preparation to images first before importing? In particular resizing before importing (though I guess if you are doing alot of panning and zooming, then you would bring all images in at max resolution, right? Well, outside of answer #1, if you have certain images you plan on zooming out of or into a lot, go with something fairly high in image size. I usually use 1600x1200 avg for sizes so I can go in real tight on images. If I dont plan on doing that for certain images, you can get away with just 1000x1000 or whatever aspect ratio it would come out to. By using the larger size, I leave it open to what I can do with an image once I am in the NLE. If you have the resolution at 72, you will be fine. Don't use anything over that, as it is overkill for resolution. I also do color corrections, any effects I want to add that are not going to be animated. Stuff like that. 3. Flickering issues - will this be a major problem in putting together photo montages? Is there a good fix for this? If you have an image wth a lot of fine detail, especially horizontal lines or small dots, do a small gaussian blur on the image, or use the antiflicker settings in your NLE. Each editing software is different, so you just have to find where that it. In Premiere Pro 2, it is in the motion controls panel. Set it to 1 for the highest setting if you have to. I have used that, and it does pretty well without blurring the image out. If it is pretty bad, use a blur either in Photoshop or the editing software. 4. Aspect ratio issues importing still images into a production for DV PAL output? You should have no issues with aspect ratios whether it is NTSC or PAL. Both use the same format. Aspect ratio will come into concern if you go with a nonstandard 4:3 video. Widescreen productions will give you the problem if you leave your images at a 4:3 ratio and you plan on zooming way out. Again, if you dont zoom out far enough for the edges of the pic to be seen, it doesnt matter. The image size would come into play on this though, because if your images are too small, and you dont have the edges hidden on the widescreen view, you might not like your outcome. Go with a higher image size like I mentioned, 1600x1200 or even higher if you need to move it around a bit. Keep the resolution to 72. Hope those help. ANyone have some info on this? _____________________________
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womanmarine Posts: 333 Joined: 10/8/2006 From: North Carolina Status: offline
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I don't worry about aspect ratio or black bars. That's why I use an alpha channel and a jumpback. That way something nice shows if you want to zoom way out.
_____________________________ Ruth (in reply to JasonGaines) |
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Sandbar Posts: 20 Joined: 1/30/2007 Status: offline
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Hi Jason, Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. As a complete newbie to multimedia in general, I feel stoopid for asking - but how much does resolution have an impact on stills in a NLE. Say if I had a 1000x1000 pixel image at 72 dpi, and the same image at 300 dpi, does it impact on the performance of the NLE? Do you notice any difference zooming right in or out of the image? I just scanned a heap of photos last night, and all recommendations I've seen on the net are to scan at 300dpi, and save as a TIF (just in case you need them for other things later like print and what not - to save them as uncompressed as possible). So therefore, I'm guessing, for usage in a NLE, I will have to batch convert all the resulting TIFs and downsample to 72dpi and save as jpegs? Also, if I'm implementing the 3D picture trick, what is the best format to save in to preserve the alpha channel? I'm guessing png, right? I fear my newbieness is coming out, and I feel somewhat like a little kid with a lolli-pop amongst a crowd of seasoned professionals at a physics convention tugging at people's shirts saying "Why is the sky blue?", "Why is the earth round?", "If I jump really high, why don't I fall off the earth?". Who knows, this may end up becoming the definitive resource on video photo montages, and I will get fame, fortune, and get to go on the talk show circuit, and maybe even win an oscar from the resulting movie deals. Good idea Ruth - I will have to find the appropriate non-distracting background to use. I was thinking this morning, that I may even go out and photograph some scenery /textures etc., and put them in as a background too - but I don't want the shots to appear too busy. I'm still brainstorming ideas for this. Also, just as an aside - not sure if I should start this up in it's own thread - what do people use to view their production on an external tv? I figure if I want to keep an eye out for flickering and framing issues, I should edit this while viewing it on an tv. I have a computer with a firewire port, and I have a tv (basic tv with normal rca inputs, nothing fancy like high def etc). What should I put in between to view my video? At work, my boss uses an analogue digital converter box, but this costs a few hundred dollars. I don't really have the money to spend on such a set up. I was just wondering if there was a cheaper alternative. A firewire to rca cable or some such? Oh, I also have a video card with video out capabilities, but I'm assuming this is just for viewing what you see on your monitor on an external tv, and not the same thing as viewing properly converted video over firewire connection, right? I'll put my lollipop away now and leave you guys to talk about quantum physics. hehe Cheers, Kiah. (in reply to womanmarine) |
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n513kk0 Posts: 167 Joined: 4/26/2005 Status: offline
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<<Also, just as an aside - not sure if I should start this up in it's own thread - what do people use to view their production on an external tv? I figure if I want to keep an eye out for flickering and framing issues, I should edit this while viewing it on an tv. I have a computer with a firewire port, and I have a tv (basic tv with normal rca inputs, nothing fancy like high def etc). What should I put in between to view my video? At work, my boss uses an analogue digital converter box, but this costs a few hundred dollars. I don't really have the money to spend on such a set up. I was just wondering if there was a cheaper alternative. A firewire to rca cable or some such? >> The "cheaper" way is to output from your NLE to your camcorder and pass through your camcorder to the analog rca outputs which then go to your tv. Not all camcorders support this however. _____________________________ kkinser@mindspring.com kimtv.neptune.com (in reply to Sandbar) |
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JasonGaines Posts: 2306 Joined: 2/17/2006 From: South Windsor, CT. Status: offline
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I do the camcorder trick right now. It works well, and yeah, you at least want to view it on a Television so that you know your colors are not blowing out, and that you dont have a flickering problem. On the photos question, that is a good way to do it. Scan them high, batch them low in JPG or PNG if you are needing the alpha channel for some 3D image works. But yeah, if you use a 300dpi image in your productions, you are really just taxing your NLE and computer for no reason, as 72 is the most you will need for onscreen viewing. The physical image size, such as 1600x1200 vs. 720x480 comes more into play when you want to animate things. Especially if you are making anything for widescreen output, as most widescreen monitors are now coming out at 1300x768 roughly. Just all some things to keep in mind when setting up your projects. Also, one thing that ALWAYS helps when first starting a project, is to storyboard your layout first. This can be an actually drawing from one segment to the next, or just righting down ideas on how you want the project to come out from the beginnnig to the end. You dont have to be specific, but writting down your ideas really helps with keeping things moving, and makes a world of difference when you first start making video projects. Any projects really. _____________________________
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Deredain Posts: 681 Joined: 6/8/2005 From: New Jersey Status: offline
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Jason: I'll add that if you are going to do a zoom in on a picture, it is better to have a little headroom over the 72 dpi to prevent pixilization. I did some extreme zooms in a family montage to highlight one person in a group and at 300 dpi it looked great. Your point is valid in the photos that you are not going to be doing anything extreme to. (in reply to JasonGaines) |
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KirAsh4 Posts: 332 Joined: 2/27/2007 From: Boulder, CO Status: offline
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Okay folks, my first post. I've gone through all the examples on here and I have to say, they're awesome. And yet, I can't figure out what I want to do with a little piece of work I'm doing. So, here's the background and hopefully someone can give me some inspiration. I'm working on the graduation video/slide show for our 5th grade kids. What I'm working on is two fold: one 15 to 20 minute long photo montage of all the kids as they went from K to 5th grade. And second, a quick, fun, and energetic show of just 4th and 5th (I may change it to only 5th depending on the amount of pictures.) For the moment, I'm focusing on this second piece... I picked a song the kids love, and are actually going to sing/dance at their graduation, and I'm keying the images to the beats of the song. This is all fine and dandy, but watching this thing now makes me think, 'Boy, how boring, just seeing images pop on screen.' So, if anyone feels up to giving me some inspiration, I have a 1 minute clip loaded at http://www.yeehaw.net/LiaH.wmv that you can see. It's 2.4 MiB in size. I'm trying to figure out what DJ product I can use, how I can make it more fun in terms of design. I may at some point even incorporate video of these kids (perhaps singing the chorus of the song) so that may be another thing to keep in mind. Thanks all. (in reply to Deredain) |
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Deredain Posts: 681 Joined: 6/8/2005 From: New Jersey Status: offline
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Ashley: Check out these Take 5 episodes for some ideas: http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/segment_detail.asp?sid=102&searchid=10240 http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/segment_detail.asp?sid=55&searchid=10240 (in reply to KirAsh4) |
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SeektheBurd Posts: 390 Joined: 9/15/2006 Status: offline
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I am by no means a professional at this and probably don't need to be offering suggestions , but watching your show and the flickering made me think of adding a flash and a camera clicking sound to parts of it. White borders on your pics to resemble poloriods atop a cool DJ background. Then use a white slide (each app is different) in between pics for the "flash" synced to the audio of a camera clicking. And captions in motion to the poloriods. Just my 2 cents. Stephanie PS-Sorry, I know you were asking about which DJ products, but I can't think of a particular background at the moment. Having a blank moment 
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KirAsh4 Posts: 332 Joined: 2/27/2007 From: Boulder, CO Status: offline
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My problem here is the aspect ratio. I thought about a photo frame, specifically something like the old polaroid pictures. However a lot of the group shots are exactly that, a group shot that won't lend itself to much shrinkage. Srhink them too much (to fit a frame) and you won't be able to tell some of the kids anymore. The polaroid frames would work great if all I did were single or dual face shots. Dunno, I'm still thinking, hoping a bit o' wine will help the creative juices flowing. If that fails, I may hit the liqour cabinet... (in reply to SeektheBurd) |
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SeektheBurd Posts: 390 Joined: 9/15/2006 Status: offline
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HI KirAsh4, You got a point there about the group shots. It's late and my thinking cap has retired for the evening. Drawing blanks, the poloroid shot was the only idea that came to mind Yeap, walk away for a little while and go have some wine. Stephanie PS-By the way, what you have so far is really cute. (in reply to KirAsh4) |
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KirAsh4 Posts: 332 Joined: 2/27/2007 From: Boulder, CO Status: offline
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Thank you Stef (May I call you Stef?) As I mentioned in my first post, there are two aspects to this project in that I'm creating a "regular" slide show which will show these kids go from Kindergarten to 5th grade. This one is more slow paced, 4 second stills, for a show lasting somwhere between 15 to 20 minutes. This being my 3rd year of doing it, I'm somewhat conforming to what was done in the past (plain and simple stills, no motion, cross fades, and a sound track.) Last year someone asked me to video tape a pool party and I ended up taking both video as well as stills which I then incorporated into a music video of sorts ("Let Them be Little" by Billy Dean) combining both the stills as well as the video footage and the response I received from the parents was simply overwhelming. This year, with this group of kids, they're more rambunctious, more energetic, so I thought I do the same, but with a fun song. And that's what you saw with the clip I posted. My problem is that when you look at this video clip and the slide show, they're essentially the same: pictures popping on screen. The difference is the music, the speed, and no fades. That's why I want to try and make this different in some way. Or, maybe make the main slide show different (though again, the same limitations apply, I can't (easily) use a polaroid style frame for a lot of the pictures.) Blah, I'm drawing a blank. (in reply to SeektheBurd) |
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